The Venerable Doctor John Applegate was Archdeacon of Bolton from 2002 to 2008 and, during 2009, he was shortlisted for the post of Bishop of Glasgow & Galloway. He is now the Principal for the All Saints Centre for Mission and Ministry, which trains men and women to become ministers in the Church of England.
Dr Applegate voted in November 2012 on whether women bishops should be accepted into the Church of England – a vote that failed to allow reform to be made. In an interview with Shaun Richardson, Dr Applegate discussed what he thinks about women bishops and considered what lies ahead.
Public opinion polls suggestthat between 70% and 80% of England’s lay population support allowing women bishops into the Church of England. Although the measure is not without its opponents. Dr Applegate strongly supports proposals to allow women bishops into the Church of England, and he voted in favour of the change in 2012. I began by asking him why he has this opinion.
“There are several arguments against women bishops that I don’t find convincing. One particularly important argument in favour is that we talk in the Church about bishops having an apostolic ministry and the first apostolic ministry, the first people to announce the resurrection of Jesus to his disciples, were women. Also, it is very clear from the New Testament that women had quite a lot of roles in leadership within the Church that disappeared for all sorts of reasons. I think that it is time to rediscover those roles.”
In order for a measure to be implemented by a vote in the General Synod, it must have a two-thirds majority in all three of the Houses –bishops, clergy and laity. In the 2012 women bishops vote, it was only the House of Laity that fell short of the two-thirds majority, and even then by only six votes. Dr Applegate believes that the general view in the General Synod is in favour of the measure, and he remains positive that women bishops will eventually be accepted by the Church of England.
He told me: “I’m not sure that it does reflect the general view. By a simple majority, the vote would have been carried. Women bishops are already accepted in a number of Anglican Churches across the world and there will be another attempt to allow them in the Church of England at the General Synod in July in York.”
In 2003 the Episcopal Church of Scotland, a branch of the Anglican Church, agreed to have women bishops. However, a decade later they have still not elected a female bishop, despite women being nominated as candidates. Could this suggest that opposition to female bishops will never be extinguished? Even if the General Synod does implement the measure, will the fire of the critics prevent them from being elected? Dr Applegate does not think so, remaining firm that only a minority are against women bishops.
“I think that there are a number of people who still feel very uncertain about having women bishops, particularly those who are traditionalist Catholics and Conservative Evangelicals in the Church of England. However, there are a whole range of people in the middle ground of the Church of England, who I think are ready to accept women bishops.”
Between 2007 and 2008, weekly attendance in the Church of England fell by 15,000, continuing the trend of annual decline that began in 2003. I asked Dr Applegate whether he thinks the rejection of women bishops could further alienate the Church of England from society. While he regrets the outcome of last year’s vote, he believes that it has ensured that an agreement can be reached that is supported by all members of society.
“One of things that the Church has been trying hard to do is to protect the rights and interests of the minorities who are opposed to the ordination of women bishops so that they can still be part of the Church and not have to leave. I think that a positive side of this is that people are seeing the Church trying to help minorities feel that they still have a place in the Church.
“I wouldn’t want a Church that gave people their marching orders and forced them to the point of leaving. I don’t think that people have understood what the General Synod has been trying to do. A number of people have opposed, not the principle of women bishops, but the legislation, which they didn’t feel gave enough protection. Myself, I thought that there was sufficient protection and I would like to have seen the measure passed. We must find a better way at being clear about the protection that exists for people who are opposed to women bishops.”
In response to suggestions that individual dioceses should decide independently whether to accept female bishops, Dr Applegate is critical. He is certain that any decision, which is made in the future regarding the ordination of women bishops, should be adopted by the whole Church.
“There’s a difficult balance in the Church of England about who decides what but I don’t think that we should be in a position where dioceses opt in or out of having women bishops. Two dioceses voted against the measure and all of the other dioceses voted for it. There will be some dioceses, who would never want to have a woman bishop but there will be people within those dioceses who would welcome a woman bishop. We have to work hard in the Church of England to get the right sort of balance. Myself, I think that women bishops should be available to every diocese.”
The historical context, Dr Applegate suggests, is important for the debate, with opposition to female bishops more a reflection of past society than contemporary opinion. He added: “The Church was born in a very patriarchal society where men did lots of things. However, it’s really interesting in that context that women also exercised leadership. But once we get into the 4th century, particularly in the West where Christianity became an official recognised religion, it was likely that men would be in positions of leadership and that seems to have continued.
“Also, there is a view, which developed early in the life of the Church that, because Jesus and his disciples were all men, then those who publicly lead and represent the Church ought to be men. However, for centuries, it has been very clear that women have led mission and service. We need to recover that initial insight of women in leadership, proclaiming the Gospel and particularly the resurrection, which is part of the role of a bishop.”
Political opinion on the right and the left widely supports the ordination of women bishops, with both the Prime Minister and the leader of the opposition verbally endorsing the measure. However, it is debatable that those that walk the corridors of Whitehall should be permitted to step on the delicate matters of the Church. Should Cameron and his cronies seek legislation to enforce the acceptance of women bishops, or should they go back to cutting budgets? Should they take matters of ecclesiastical law into their own hands, or stick to putting beef back into burgers?
“The way that the Church of England is set up is that any legislation passed by the General Synod must go to Parliament and to the Crown. That is part of it being an established Church. However, I don’t think that the politicians should be interfering. They should keep to the process that is clearly set out in law, rather than trying to make threats about it, which I don’t think is very helpful at all.”
Finally, I asked Dr Applegate whether the debate around women bishops really has any relevance today. Is it necessary in an increasingly secular society, where technology, work and leisure seem to replace religion in people’s lives?
“I think that it is significant and I hope that what might come out of the debate in July is that people see that the Church is really trying to do the right thing but is also not treating loyal Anglicans badly.
“As I say, my view is very clear, that we would benefit from having women bishops and there is nothing in scripture that goes against this, but I do think that we have to be full of care, kind and loving to people who disagree with that view. The issue is how we sort that out. If the Church could be seen to be doing this well, then I think it would be a good example for modern society on how majorities respect minorities.”